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User talk:Hhhippo/BuildArchive/Team Lutgardis FFF
Rate-a-build Please test and vote on new builds Tested: #''10/10'' #Eudas 15:25, 4 October 2006 (CDT) #Cainan 16:37, 7 October 2006 (CDT) #Grebs 18:56, 10 October 2006 (GMT) #BlueNovember 20:34, 25 January 2007 (GMT) # Should be a guide tho... ~ Nilles (msg) 16:55, 15 March 2007 (CDT) Unfavoured: #''(your vote here)'' Variants Ok, so this is the fastest and most used format. However, there are tons of ways to run the way points. Some nearly as fast, some very creative. How much and how many variants do we want to include? Some variants: *W/A with Sprint as the other stance along with Dark Escape (can't use Charge). *Me/A: can echo Shadow Form to alleviate issues of timing. Also has the advantage that Illusion of Haste removes crippling from the Mantis Hunters. *E/A: Using Windborne Speed as the other run skill. Windborne makes you very fast, but it has a cast time unlike stances. *Me/E or E/Me: using Expel Hexes and Hex Breaker to dodge the Dreamweaver's Hexes and then Windborne and/or Armor of Mist to run. *Mo/W, Mo/R, Mo/A: Using spell Breaker instead of Shadow Form. Advantage: a plehtora of hex and condition removal skills. rippling" or "survive a Mantis spike" or whatever else counts as the hard part of the run)? — 130.58 (talk) 22:21, 8 September 2006 (CDT) :We should only use the most successfull build like A/R, R/A, Mo/R and Me/A I have see all of them in work and they are by far the most effective. -Grebs 9:51, 9 September 2006 (GMT) ::R/Mo, W/Mo, A/Me,...whatever the heck you want. This is becoming less and less a build and more just a suggestion page. Any running build works... I don't think this should be a build page. Windtalker 20:44, 11 September 2006 (CDT) :::This is not a guide on how to do the quest. This is the build that the top alliance holding HzH always does. You show up with your W/Mo and ask to run you, will run shore, naked, that's it. What you are talking about is the "FF" run. This is the "FFF" run. You can't do FFF with an R/Mo for example. --Karlos 18:51, 13 September 2006 (CDT) ::::What is FFF, for the benefit of the unclued-in? I know what two of the effs mean; is the third "fast"? Perhaps a glossary entry would be helpful. 66.90.73.113 18:57, 13 September 2006 (CDT) :::::FFF is Fast Faction Farming (although they should be implying fast'est' FF team. There are too many running variants to name for a normal FF team, so I would recommend modifying the build list and instead mention some good builds for each. I know my alliance (currently holding Lutgardis) does a few things different, mainly with the bridge being run by a Mo/W (Spell Breaker), sometimes even a 55hp monk, which is surprisingly effective and can sac very very fast as well (even sac to a white tiger). Some of these variants do not slow it down, as they can still reach and sac before the last runner can. And as far as the R/Mo, they are one of the fastest solo faction farming build, which can sometimes outpace the normal FF group of pickup players (in alliance). --Demos 10:34, 4 October 2006 (CDT) -- These are the less-common variants used by Sins alliance. I'm not sure how everyone feels about including them in the main article, so I leave them here as a reference/for later addition. They're still slow, but are used until people get assasins to Lut. The mesmer build does have some interesting points though: # The combination of Fast Casting and Deadly Paradox gives you sub 1/4 second casting time on Shadow Form. # The combination of Deadly Paradox and Arcane Echo will allow you Shadow Form for over a minute continuously. # Illusion of Weakness combined with superior runes lets you self inflict your entire health bar and die instantly. # Arcane Mimicry with Aura of Displacement can make for some interresting multi-point runs. (Quoted from alliance boards) ~ BlueNovember 15:40, 25 January 2007 (CST) Alternative Runner Equipment: *Weaponset 1: A normal weapon/staff of Enchanting. If the weapon is one-handed, use a Focus Item for a bit more energy. *Weaponset 2: A high energy set (of enchanting). (Inscriptions Live for today and Seize the day.) Usage: *Cast Protective Bond and Featherfoot Grace and start the run. *Use Enchanted Haste and Harrier's Haste for extra speed, renew Featherfoot Grace when its ready, and you got time for it. *Use Divert Hexes when you have Crippling Anguish on you, otherswise you should lose aggro first. *Use Mending Touch if you only have Crippled on you and no hexes. (Divert Hexes will also remove conditions when you are hexed.) *Use Shield of Absorption when you are taking a lot of hits. When this happens, your energy will be low because Protective Bond causes you to lose energy, than you should switch to your high energy set. Usefull Skills: *Smite Hex might be handy if you encounter a lot of Dreamweavers. Advantages: *With this build you can run 50% faster all the time. *If you are running multiple spots, you dont have to wait for your Shadow Form to recharge. Žşþāйķў 11:07, 5 March 2007 (CST) Equipment *Any +20% enchant will work (prefer staff for the energy) Usage *Use Featherfoot Grace BEFORE Shadow Form for the extra boost of speed. *Use Lyssa's Haste to help kill yourself, or keep you from natural health regen. Notes *Might have to practice this build when you run the shortcuts, other than that its pretty simple to use. *I used this build to run all four spots, shortcuts included. *There's 4 Running Stances with the 2 speed boost from enchants, so in theory you can run from steady 50%-100% faster, however, I don't recommend using Lyssa's Haste for anything other than to kill yourself. Jdavis 20:39, 26 March 2007 (CDT) Nightfall skills I do not want any nightfall skills in the main builds. Faction farming is primarily a Factions activity. I know there are still crazy people who do it with Nightfall skills, but Amber is like 500 gold now, not even worth farming. Anyways. If you want to add a nightfall version, add it as a separate section in the article, do not alter the main builds in the article with Nightfall skills. Also, using Return to get the reward is like, extremely lame. --Karlos 20:13, 25 January 2007 (CST) Perfectl Built! THis Is built is the perfect to fff! I made my self steward title out of this built! for the 2 optionals for the assasin/ranger, i would suggest Dodge & Zojuns haste! Deletion Candidate This build should not be deleted. it explains the process and concepts clearly, and well, and is the only Lutgardis FFF source of information on guildwiki. It should remain. --Eudas 15:26, 4 October 2006 (CDT) :Think of it as a bump :) The tag is on 200~ untouched builds, and just by posting this you've shown it is clearly not abandonned! Removing the tag — Skuld 15:56, 4 October 2006 (CDT) I've tested this also, and from the HUGE numbers of people in Lutgardis advertising for this FFF run, I'd say this should be moved into the 'test' category. --Cainan 16:43, 7 October 2006 (CDT) fastest way for survivor. is this the fastest way for the survivor title?--Shade Murtagh 20:30, 25 November 2006 (CST) :Yes, if you can find anyone to do it now that Nightfall is out. Doormen can typically be Survivor title seekers just fine. --Karlos 07:22, 27 November 2006 (CST) :Please note, it is best to join a Faction Farming Alliance if you choose to use this method to go for survivor title. Acting as "door man" is usually very safe, but farming with strangers can lead to trouble, as they may aggro enemies TO you, trying specifically to ruin your quest for the title. Other ways they may do this: attacking a nearby white tiger, thereby turning him hostile against you, or killing said tiger, raising an undead minion (such as a high level flesh golem) then mapping out, thereby leaving said minion masterless and hostile towards you. Some people have nothing better to do than be jerks. Be wary of faction farming with strangers. Vanessa 01:10, 22 February 2007 (CST) Nightfall Variant I, personally, believe that this build needs to have a huge section added for the new build that has come out with Nightfall. By using the skills Dash and Natural Stride alternately, one can be constantly moving at at least 33% faster-than-normal speed as long as energy still lasts and Wilderness Survival is 12. :You can do that with Storm Djinn's Haste too, and the energy degen from that spell is no problem for characters with 4 or 3 pips of energy regen. However, why would someone come back to FF after they get Nightfall. :( FF is zzzzzz. --Karlos 21:36, 19 December 2006 (CST) ::I previously updated it to include NF skills. I'll add the more recent "Deadly Paradox" builds now. BlueNovember 15:21, 25 January 2007 (CST) :::See above, I'd rather nightfall version be kept in a separate section, than in the main article body. This keeps the build a Factions build. Thanks. --Karlos 20:15, 25 January 2007 (CST) ::::Nonsense. It makes far more sense to have a version for people who do not have NF. There's already _many_ build pages that contain Nightfall skills. See Category:Running_builds. Reducing effectiveness of the build for those who do not have nightfall is "like, extremely lame". Additionally, FYI, most guilds (crazy or otherwise) farm for the titles, not the amber. I plan to revert changes unless you can present an arguement more valid than what you have already given. BlueNovember 12:03, 26 January 2007 (CST) :Much as I hate to sully myself with build stuff, why not add the NF skills as a variant? --Rainith 13:16, 26 January 2007 (CST) :: /agree with Rainith. There is merit in keeping a faction facing team build limited to only faction skills while adding a section on improving the build with NF skills. Isn't this the perfect case of having our cake and eating it too? -- Oblio (talk) 13:23, 26 January 2007 (CST) :::BlueNovember, perhaps you did not notice, but I am the original poster of the build. So, scratching my request as nonsense is really a poor way to start this dialog. Anyways, I stated my reasons very clearly. Faction farming is very much a factions activity. The key difference between adding the nightfall version as a variant and adding the nightfall skills in the main builds is that if they are in the main build then the entire article is a Nightfall build. Which is not true and not very useful. Instead, put the Nightfall version as a variant. --Karlos 16:20, 26 January 2007 (CST) ::::Well, in all fairness to BlueNovember, no author trully owns their build on a wiki. Once it's here, it belongs to the community. ::::That said - I fully support keeping the default build as a Factions-only build, then insert a variant for any Nightfall or multi-campaign builds. The build is specifically designed to farm a Factions location, no place else, so it's logical to make the primary build also be based on Factions skills. Other campaign skills can make good variants - and that's how they should be treated here, as build variants. --- Barek (talk ) - 16:27, 26 January 2007 (CST) :::::Meh, the correct builds are in the revision history. If someone wishes to post them, do so. Please un-correct my wording of the article though; with the builds given the R/A has a substantial speed advantage over the A/R, etc. BlueNovember 20:27, 26 January 2007 (CST) :::::Barek, I never said that as the original poster I have some sort of extra authority over the article. I said that as the original poster, my input as to what makes or does not make sense should not be so easily disregarded with a "nonsense" tag. I think as someone who has Faction Farmed for 2.4 million faction and held house zu Heltzer longer than anyone else ever has, I have a few valuable points to add to the discussion. :::::BlueNovember, you need to reach a consensus here with us, the people debating this with you, before you go about changing the article. You have been reverted once already, change it again and you risk being banned. Argue for your points and build a case, don't just keep changing stuff. --Karlos 23:17, 28 January 2007 (CST) :::::Karlos, I've not been reverted. In fact, most of my edits remain, only changes you made were to remove the nightfall skills. Your experience with holding HzH is irrelevant if we're discussing skills that were released after you stopped FFFing. Besides, if you're going to go down that road, I've been an officer in the leading alliance since July 06 till now, via TLS and now Sins. It's petty to bring up such points; I respect your opionion regardless of what experience you have. I do however resent the implication that I "kept changing stuff"; I did not revert the changes after you removed the improved NF builds I addded. Anyway, how does everyone feel about having this "Nightfall Variant" added to the article then, as Barek suggests? BlueNovember 08:06, 4 February 2007 (CST) ::::::If you read up, you'll see that this was what I suggested to begin with. Stating my experience in Faction farming is very relevant, and there is no road to go down into. I never said my experience is more than yours therefore my opinion is better than yours, you are drawing very strange (and wrong) conclusions. When you dismiss the opinion of someone as myself as "non-sense" the only recourse I have is to blow that statement out of the water. That is what I did. I simply set the record straight. If you were an officer in TLS, I would know you as I knew all their leadership and was close friends with Weifarere. Anyways, you did not respect my opinion and that is why I brought up my experience... You have not even been reading the posts I am making as I have already TWICE stated that it would be best to just place them in a separate section in the article and yet you seem to think Barek was the one suggesting that. Hmpf. --Karlos 09:14, 4 February 2007 (CST) Luxon-Held Resurrect Point Is it possible to use the Resurrect Point (when Lutgardis is under Luxon control) if the doorman can engage and kill the Luxons around the shrine? ~ SotiCoto 195.33.121.133 09:35, 15 February 2007 (CST) :.............just bribe him......... Jackers 15:04, 15 February 2007 (CST) Polish Added Nightfall skills and use of return to quicken pace. --218.103.220.33 11:44, 24 February 2007 (CST) :I just noticed the arguements above about usage of nightfall skills. However, take note that the only nightfall skill I've added is Natural Stride which is simply better for a R/A, and is easily aquirable (not to mention a skill any decen ranger should have anyway). It is just one skill and a change from Expertise to wilderness (trapping set?). Expertise is simply not important anymore as most of the skills are assassin and unaffected by expertise now. The only skill affected, then, is dodge and zojun's haste. It's longer duration but even longer recharge does not mesh well with dash. Natural Stride, on the other hand, recharges just as dash does, meaning that you have, as mentioned, faster than normal speed. I think the page should represent the fastest speed boost possible. Furthermore, it's a relatively small issue, as those without stride could simply switch it out for dodge and have expertise. ::I also added the use of return, too. That increases the speed somewhat. --218.103.220.33 11:50, 24 February 2007 (CST) :Except, of course, that Natural Stride ends when you become hexed (which Shadow Form would prevent) or Enchanted (which Shadow Form causes) thus diminishing its usefulness in this context. --Heurist 08:39, 1 March 2007 (CST) ::SF doesn't stop you using Natural Stride *after* you've used SF. As Anon mentioned above, Natural Stride + Dash synergize nicely to greatly decrease run times. I also agree that the article should show the best possible builds, not limited ones. BlueNovember 12:17, 16 March 2007 (CDT) :::And until today, I see no reason why you can't create the build section in the Nightfall Variants section. You keep insisting on featuring it as the main build and we have already established that that is a poor choice because Faction farming is primarily a factions-only activity. So, feel free, again, to post your super-duper, nightfall-factions-prophecies combo in the the Nightfall variants section. --Karlos 18:56, 18 March 2007 (CDT) ::::"Until today"? What changed? Anyway, to draw an annalogy, "Running droks" is entirely an Prophecies-only activity. To me at least, it does not seem logical to put the Dervish droks runner as a "Nightfall variant"; it's the only run build serious runners seem to use. The same could apply to Sunspear/LB point farming in Elona with Proph/Factions skills, tyrian/canthan/elonian chest running with run skills from other chapters, and of course FFF. ::::As for posting the build, I'd prefer to wait until we resolve this discussion before I write it up (again). BlueNovember 21:08, 3 April 2007 (CDT) Alternative Runners... There are INFINITE ways to run those points with something other than the A/R builds. Literally infinite. Please do not post a build just because it works. I used to run it as E/Me with Expel Hexes. I am thinking perhaps we should add a sub-article like Build:Team - Lutgardis FFF/Other builds and just let everyone list whatever, but I fear that the same crap that goes on in the builds section will go on there (i.e. Mo/D and D/Mo builds that are identical except for one skill and so on). This article is trying to post the optimal build for this, not just any build. --Karlos 05:50, 12 March 2007 (CDT) : I like the Any/Any combination for the Doorman. :D ~ Nilles (msg) 17:00, 15 March 2007 (CDT) Why does the R/A have 3+3 WS? I doesn't have a SINGLE WS skill... Explain. I will remove pending an explanation. --Frvwfr2 12:23, 4 April 2007 (CDT) Luxon FFF Luxon FFF unleashed! ^^ Please test&rate this build as well. :) Thanks in advance. Luxon FFF Žşþāйķў 14:10, 7 April 2007 (CDT)